Pardon me if my interpretation of hate does not blend with the cohesiveness of yours. Regardless, endure with me as I shall make this a quick dash past a small topic.
A discussion took place at the Great Congregation of Love, which involved people mentioning about preferring over some Gundam shows over other, and hating some because their merits seem pale in comparison to others.
Hopefully, my esteemed colleagues are not talking about there being people who actually dislike certain constituents of the Gundam franchise because they fail to live up to expectations imbued into them by their favourite ones.
As always, I shall be reiterating the obvious type of opinion (for I am ignorantly guilty of not knowing about what other people have already discussed): a Gundam show should not be criticized on the basis of being an imitation of a predecessor, or if its discourse is not coherent with the ones of highly appraised counterparts.
Surely even within franchise certain works can deviate in the themes expressed, right? For instance, SDF Macross speaks of a very different theme to Macross Frontier. The former celebrates the dawn of human spirit and sentiments, triumphing great odds, while the later is a lament of human dissonance and the rediscovery of love. SDF Macross and Macross Frontier talk about really different ideas.
Oh dear. To summarize it, I do believe all Gundam shows ought to be evaluated with an isolated approach; references to other shows (unless they are sequels) are not required. Wait, am I promoting close criticism of some sort?
Ah yes. I am sorry for stating the obvious.
Relevant post
P.S. Kyoani loyalist, Kaioshin Sama, writes about the problem of being trapped in the quagmire of comparing shows with bad ones in a bid to reduce the merit of the former.
11 Comments
June 23, 2009 at 10:10 pm
The thing is that I believe most people do try to evaluate each Gundam outside of just another title in the franchise — they will hate on certain series because they think that they just suck as a series, not because they suck as a Gundam series. Then again, some of the most criticized titles are AU titles, so it’s easy to believe that it’s the UC purists ganging up on the new kids on the block. Wing, SEED, and 00 are among those hated on (SEED Destiny might get a category on its own, being a sequel), but I rarely see people argue against them with reasoning like, “It’s not UC and therefore sucks!” Most [intelligent] people will give their legitimate reasoning as to why they believe a certain series sucks — it’s usually because of poor storytelling or characters.
Anyway, I don’t think you have much to worry about as far as being fair goes. Maybe I’m just an optimist when it comes to debate though.
June 23, 2009 at 10:53 pm
Gundam shows cover the same ground, but man some fans don’t want any change at all.
G Gundam was hated when it first came out. Why? It was a super robot show! Just do an image search of the “Nether Gundam,” or the “Tequila Gundam” and you’ll understand the uproar.
It’s the same with Wing, where the franchise started courting new fans as opposed to merely fellating the old ones. “Don’t suck the n00bs cocks! Don’t you want us anymore?! Y U DO DIS?”
Yeah, that’s the kind of butthurt nobody admits to experiencing.
For better or worse, Sunrise/Bandai has to expand the fanbase because old fans will hardly ever agree on anything. There will be always those who will stomp on the latest show and be loud and obnoxious about it. Wing still sucks though.
June 29, 2009 at 7:58 am
But how could anyone HATE G Gundam? It’s a super robot show involving Gundams! Crazy designs notwithstanding, of course.
Super Robots are awesome! GaoGaiGar IS awesome! Gurren Lagann is Awesome! Even The Great Mazinger series and GETTER ROBO is awesome!
They’re silly! Insane! Make no sense! But OH SO AWESOME.
June 24, 2009 at 1:39 am
Targetted Gundam hate trends as of late continue to strike me as ridiculous and absurd. Though perhaps not as ridiculous as what can happen if you mention that other Sunrise series in a discussion and see what people come up with to bash it on. Durrr…”bad writing”…..
Anyway, some people definitely never gave certain Gundam series a chance and it’s especially evident with the most recent one. I think people know the ones I am talking about. Personally I think if you go into a Gundam series with the attitude, “I’m going to hate on this and that and support this and if it’s not like x Gundam series then it sucks” and then proceed to bash everything about it then not only are you not a true Gundam fan, but you can’t even be said to have and open mind.
I’m glad there there are starting to be more calls from people like those in this topic for at the very least some common sense and reason when it comes to approaching Gundam and whatever is in store for it’s future. It would really suck if the future of Gundam fandom was just western fans trashing every new series that comes out.
@ghostlightning: I think they’ve been doing just that. They’ve been trying new things and hopefully that means seeing what fans will accept story and AU wise and what they won’t and will be applying it. Contrary to the popular belief they’ve always been an experimental company that is willing to take risks every now and then on both the business venture and storytelling side. Of course there are those that will never appreciate that and will all but directly demand that they do the same type of series from them that they liked over and over again, but then those people are a lost cause anyway and not to mention not very open minded.
@Kiri: The popular quips are actually more along the lines of the insidious “bad writing” and “ridiculous”, and I think it’s safe to say that for every thought out criticism that makes use of the these terms, there is one person who busts them out just because it’s in vogue. There are so many times where somebody has called something “bad writing” in Gundam and that other show despite the fact that there was a perfectly obvious and reasonable explanation for why the script ended up flowing the way it did and/or the character was actually behaving in character, just on a level that is independent from their archetype. It’s as cliche as saying “bad writing” is in itself, but the term has basically just come to mean any plot event or character action that a person doesn’t approve of and doesn’t want to seem like the person who is spoiling the party by grousing about it. So they shift the blame onto the writers and then it becomes their problem and people have to address the persons grievance from that perspective.
I don’t think I have to mention how unsettling and unfortunate I happen to find this trend by itself.
June 24, 2009 at 2:13 am
They really have to, and they have to look outside Japan too — which could mean very unwelcome changes (should the producers choose to court a broader international audience).
Declining birthrates in Japan mean a smaller market. Combine this with the increasing exposure/sophistication of the established fans (the more they consume the archives), specific yet varied preferences will develop.
Ergo, they won’t be able to please everyone. The targeted Gundam hate you keep on talking about is just the cost of doing business. It just results in even more attention and makes the protective Gundamfags buy more Gundam-related products. Sunrise will take this hate all the way to the bank.
June 24, 2009 at 2:51 am
They’re pretty active outside Japan. Even as we speak several Gundam series are being subtitled in multiple languages to be distributed online and Gundam Unicorn is poised for a worldwide release.
June 24, 2009 at 3:20 am
I do see your point. It is likely too optimistic of me, but I like to think that people actually believe in what they say, regardless of whether their accusations of “bad writing” stems from a legitimate criticism or a personal vendetta against a certain event or character. As long as they aren’t using previous Gundam titles as a comparison for “good writing,” it isn’t really a problem of Gundamfaggotry as it is of perceived ignorance, purposeful antagonism or some other factor.
And as far as the Gundamfaggotry goes, it’s really just a maturity issue, isn’t it?
June 24, 2009 at 8:42 am
Maturity OH YES. TEH OLDER I GET, TEH MORE FAGGOTRY I MAKE FOR GANDAMU. wwwwwww
June 24, 2009 at 11:42 am
I have to admit: I did not completely enjoy Gundam 00, but that is my issue (pertaining to personal asinine standards in appreciating animu).
But still I can understand why there will be Gundam fans and others who cannot appreciate certain shows of the franchise. The franchise is not obligated to please any fan; it has to constantly innovate (hmm…) and seek ways to reach out to potential fans.
June 27, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Ah, politics.
I wonder if the more damaging association is the audience-related hipster one – that is, “those who like X show are this sort of person; I do/do not see myself as this sort of person.”
December 12, 2009 at 6:43 am
Mecha Anime I saw / Gundam is by far the best
I have seen all the gundam shows that are released except “SD Gundam”(Couldn’t watch it), Evolve(too unconnected/disjointed)
Except GGundam all other shows were fine , The thing about GGundam is it was too funny some times/unrealistic except that they tried explaining those stuff with nano machines stuff,even then it was a totally weird Gundam Show.
Turn a Gundam Started off well actually but at the end with this butterfly stuff seriously faltered
I also watched many of the votoms stuff,they were equally amazing
Fafner was also good to an extent
Coming back to Gundam i have only one thing to say
:-
Comparing Gundam 79 with Gundam 00 saying that Gundam 79 has poor animation is amateurish as all know that earlier one was created in 70′s and the technology available today is vastly superior than those available in the past.
People who say that 00 is worse are equally stupid as OO really connects to current reality with US acting like a big brother and stuff and the warring island of Ceylon
In short each Gundam series including the OVAs and the animated films are really interesting and are not dumb like the other anime hugely popular series that going around like “Bleach”(How many times does ichigo get to protect soul society,so stupid monotonous,moronic infact)